Curse

Metanoia · Apr 29, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

"Um, it's called exploiting the other team's mistakes? Not a difficult concept, you know. Exploiting limits of attention spans is a wonderful thing. I do it as much as I can. More of the PvP game in GW is mind-games. You figure out your foes, you've won the match, because then you can exploit the weaknesses you see. Build weakness doesn't matter at all when you know how to hit them where they really can't defend against it."

"Oh noes! RA!!1!!11 I'm so worried about someone accusing me of doing RA, when my experience using such strategies is HA and GvG from just a few days ago! Your entire rebuttal just got thrown back in your face! What are you gonna do now? Accuse me of hunting n00b players in HA? Tell me the only way I can win in HA is if I pick on stupid players? Please, I certainly would love you to try."

Heh, so "playing intelligently" did mean "playing bad players". Your "strategy" to avoid being spiked by non-projectile ranged DDs at the end of Shadow Form without moving out of their range is... Hope they're not paying attention? What happens when you're playing people who know what they're doing? They'll call Shadow Form upon sight and then come back to you in 12 or so seconds to finish you after your self-inflicted spike.

Given all your HA/GvG experience I would have expected you to make use of the rest of your team by pointing out that thanks to the 3 second flashing icon warning you'll be able to get your monk to perform a near-perfect infuse on you.

"Oh, yes, WM will surely come in here and trounce my exact build, and I'm going to be so stupid as to go and knock out NPCs by myself when my guild is facing WM. lol. You have no point here, do you?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Yes, because NPCs pose so great a threat, and the other team will surely send one or two of their own characters away from the front of the battle. lol.

You have seen WM play GvG, right? They're incredibly aggressive when it comes to NPC-killing and they dominate at VoD because of it. So, yes. NPCs do pose so great a threat.

"Wait a minute...do you honestly believe that Warrior strategies and timing apply to Assassin?"
What does this have to do with what I said? I never labled them "Warrior strategies", it's just a simple number crunching. A Warrior can deliver 184 + 2 attacks worth of damage in 1.3 seconds. Your Assassin build does aproximately 180 + 4 attacks worth of damage in just under 4 seconds. 130 + 2 attacks worth of that comes from Twisting Fangs, the last attack in your combo. There's more than enough time to cast Blinding Flash on you or Guardian on your target (heck, most Monks pre-cast that when they see melee characters running in to spike).

"If you honestly believe that, I'll look forward to dropping you just as fast (if not faster) than a Warrior can, with me using a variety of different heavy-hitting Assassin builds."
Perhaps, but not with this build I'll bet. Also, you seem to be confusing pressure damage with spike damage.

"That's because most Warriors aren't Assassins, mate. They need to rely on Adrenaline build-up to do anything. I Cripple my target, and within the next 4 seconds, they're dead. Warriors need those 4 seconds to build Adre usually. Assassins don't. Warriors don't rely solely on Cripple because they really can't kill in a few seconds, unless they're fully Adrenalined before that point. Assassins are always fully Adrenalined, as it were."
And Assassins aren't Warriors, either. Warriors build up adrenaline while applying pressure damage by bouncing around the enemy's back line. You can't count the time taken to gain adrenaline as part of the spike. Besides, your build isn't "always fully adrenalined" because the only real damage in your combo (30+DW+2 attacks) has a 15 second cooldown. If anything you'll "spike" less often than a Warrior and deal less pressure damage between the spikes. I've already given reasons why the "spike" itself is ineffective.

"Yeah, I replied by quoting something I had said long before you entered this thread. lol"
Check again, I quoted you quoting yourself.

"The job being what? Your shortsighted and myopic idea that this build was designed for solely killing NPCs? Let's get one thing straight here. Nowhere have I ever said or implied I would be using this build to kill meaningless little Archers in GvG. I had mentioned Guild Lord assassinations. That was it. You were the one who launched into this "NPC GANK" thought process. So do me a favor and either get with the program or just take your lame attempts at playing spin-doctor and shove them."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

Besides, you're also missing any movement abilities. Without shadow step-skills or speed buffs you're going to have a very hard time getting close enough to do anything. You aren't going to be able to split off and kill NPCs because you'll be so slow you'll just get taken down by their flagger. In the main melee you'll basically be a slow naked weak Warrior as you lack the defence, the deep wound, the IAS buff and the speed buff.

IMO mobility is the Assassin's greatest asset. You mentioned that Shadow Form could be useful for assassinating Guild Lords. Why don't you create the rest of the skill set around that theme? An NPC-killer. It'll have to be able to beat most enemies 1 on 1 (flaggers) and have the mobility to escape ganks while still being able to make short work of NPCs.

As you can see, I never said this build was designed to kill NPCs. I said it wouldn't be able to kill NPCs OR contribute much in the main melee. Then I merely suggested that perhaps you could make better use of Shadow Form in a soloist-type build.

"No, I was looking for meaningful criticism, not some short-sighted little twerp's myopic and asinine opinion...especially when that little twerp obviously hasn't played Assassin enough to offer meaningful criticism, because had he had the necessary experience, he wouldn't be talking out of his ass, telling me how I won't be able to do damage with this build, when any experienced Assassin player knows that virtually any Assassin build can be absolutely deadly when played correctly."
You weren't looking for meaningful criticism, you were looking for a pat on the back. Besides, I did give meaningful criticism. I've explained why this build will come out sub-par when it comes to damage-dealing. I recognised that you were trying to use a seemingly underpowered elite and I respected that and suggested another application of it in a build.

"Go ahead and try to spin my responses as "lalalalala." I'm not the one coming in here and talking out of my ass, and ignoring the fundamentals of the Assassin profession. You're treating Assassins like a Warrior. That's where your entire rebuttals are coming from, and you're using it as a basis to ignore what I'm saying, even when what I'm saying comes from experience playing Assassin."
I'm treating this Assassin like a Warrior for a very good reason. You're trying to use it like a Warrior. I'm not ignoring what you're saying, I'm actually giving reasons and evidence as to why I disagree.

I have to ask, exactly how long have you been playing Assassin in high-end GvG?

@MysticPain, You might want to test Illusion of Weakness with Shadow Form if you can spare the secondary. Shadow Form should prevent IoW being stripped. You could also try using Arcane Echo with it... Just a thought.

fallot · May 04, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Yes, because NPCs pose so great a threat, and the other team will surely send one or two of their own characters away from the front of the battle. lol.

Play much GvG ?